An immigrant's tale
I am only briefly going to touch on this right now (mainly because I have a class to teach in about an hour)...
This is just my two cents about not just what is going on in Paris but also a report I heard on NPR today about people in AUSTRALIA and people in AMMAN (JORDAN) - wondering if they should really be aligned with the USA as far as fighting 'terror'. I will post more on these issues later.
{EDIT: I have posted the links to both sotries - the one about Australia is more about whether or not they should align with the US in fighting terror and whether that makes them more of a target. The one about Jordan is about their reacion to the killings and the horror of finding out WHO committed the acts).
Let me talk about my own 'immigration' experience. My grandmother and grandfather on my mother's side were from Italy (Calabria to be exact) - now I will say my grandmother was a mean woman - period - she was simply not nice - I don't have pleasant memories of her - she was just mean-spirited. She was not happy to be over here in this country (I really don't think) - other than the fact that she lived in a much nicer house than she could have in Italy and her kids did better financially. Now, the only way I remember my grandmother bucking the system was while you were in her home you spoke Italian - ONLY Italian not English. However, outside in public my grandmother followed the rules, laws and customs of the United States (as in 'when in Rome'). Sure my uncles were involved with some illegal things but that's another story...they sure as hell didn't start riots in Pittsburgh.
I have to say that if people are going to immigrate to another country and then be somehow disillusioned with that country and want to then harm that country's citizens, burn things down in their new 'home', disrupt the life, liberty and happiness of the other 'law abiding' citizenry, then they should either be deported, otherwise forced to leave or be jailed for their crimes. In other words if you are so fucking unhappy, leave. Otherwise figure out another PEACEFUL way to get your anger and frustration across NON-VIOLENTLY! It's worked for years in this country.
Yes this country was founded on turmoil we fought a war - a revolution to win our freedom from ANOTHER country (that was across the pond from us) - but we did not go to that other country and start riots or burning the place down because had we done so, we'd have been put in the stockades or hung or both.
If the immigrants in France want to go start a new country elsewhere let them go - there must be some really tiny island they can inhabit somewhere, vaguely threaten the US and then be taken care of...burning down Paris isn't the answer.
EDIT: I am going to post some things that Mr. C - sent to me and then our back and forth e-mail to show (not that I care what people think) that I am not heartless or prejudiced or racist or even all that nationalistic:
From Mr. C: A little history first.
Beginning in 1965, race riots became common in many Northern and Western cities. The most famous riot to occur happened in the Watts District of Los Angeles, California, but numerous other violent outbreaks occurred, including in several Ohio cities. The two most famous riots in Ohio, the Hough Riots and the "Glenville shootout," both erupted in Cleveland. Usually these riots occurred because of racist police forces (of Cleveland's 2,200 police officers, only 165 were black)or because of a lack of declining hope among African Americans for economic, social, and political
advancement.
In the case of the Cleveland Race Riots of 1966, also known as the Hough Riots, violence erupted in June 1966. The rioting lasted several days, and the Cleveland police force proved ineffective in quelling the violence. It finally took 2,200 Ohio National Guardsmen to reestablish order. Arson fires destroyed several blocks of homes and businesses in the Hough neighborhood on the east side of Cleveland. Four African Americans died. A grand jury assigned to investigate the riots concluded
that outsiders, including some communists, had caused the disturbance. Another panel more accurately determined that "The underlying causes of the rioting are to be found in the social conditions that exist in the ghetto areas of Cleveland." In essence, African-American residents in this part of Cleveland felt hopeless and that the city, state, and federal government officials had forgotten about them. source:
http://www.ohiohistorycentral.org/entry.php?rec=1597
Could the French blacks feel the same way? Surely, this does not justify civil disobedience however, We are know is that to the dis-advantaged it is very difficult to just pick up and move.
Recently I recieved a email that had been around before. It was about some rant poorly written in a Tampa rag:
"IMMIGRANTS, NOT AMERICANS, MUST ADAPT. I am tired of this nation worrying about whether we are offending some individual or their culture. Since the terrorist attacks on Sept. 11, we have experienced a surge in patriotism by the majority of Americans. However, the dust from the attacks had barely settled when the "politically correct" crowd began complaining about the possibility that our patriotism was offending others. I am not against immigration, nor do I
hold a grudge against anyone who is seeking a better life by coming to America. Our population is almost entirely made up of descendants of immigrants. However, there are a few things that those who have recently come to our country, and apparently some born here, need to understand. This idea of America being a multicultural community has served only to dilute our sovereignty and our national identity.
As Americans, we have our own culture, our own society, our own language and our own lifestyle. This culture has been developed over centuries of struggles, trials, and victories by millions of men and women who have sought freedom.
We speak ENGLISH, not Spanish, Portuguese, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if you wish to become part of our society, learn the language! "In God We Trust" is our national motto. This is not some Christian, right wing, political slogan. We adopted this motto because Christian men and women, on Christian principles, founded this nation, and this is clearly documented. It is certainly appropriate to display it on the walls of our schools.
If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another part of the world as your new home, because God is part of our culture. If Stars and Stripes offend you, or you don't like Uncle Sam, then you should seriously consider a move to another part of this planet. We are happy with our culture and have no desire to change, and we really don't care how you did things where you came from. This is OUR COUNTRY, our land, and our lifestyle. Our First Amendment gives every citizen the right to express his opinion and we will allow you every opportunity to do so. But once you are done complaining, whining, and griping about our flag, our pledge, our national motto, or our way of life, I highly encourage you take advantage of one other great American freedom, THE RIGHT TO LEAVE.
It is Time for America to Speak up If you agree -- pass this along; if you don't agree -- delete it!
AMEN
I figure if we all keep passing this to our friends (and enemies) it will also, sooner or later get back to the complainers, lets all try, please.
Now let it be known I don't agree with ALL of the sentiment of the piece from the Tampa Newspaper but I do agree with some of it. Below I am going to post the e-mails we sent back and forth...
This was my e-mail to Mr. C when he sent the above 'history':
I know I may have sounded a bit ‘nationalistic’ but I feel that if you are going to enter a country (supposedly to find that ‘pot of gold’) – then you need to live there respectfully.
I don’t mean to imply that racism is OK – I can understand people wanting to riot – but all that does is make things worse, people get hurt, property gets damaged and the hard feelings never go away – the ‘blacks’ or otherwise disenfranchised get ‘branded’ as difficult or not worthy of good stuff cause they always ruin it – and as in the case of a lot of ghettos, you see these people turning their anger inwards, hurting each other.
I will say these two names again Gandhi, Martin Luther King….those are the role models for what these people need to do...
And his response to me:
Agreed! ...and I know how you really feel about this sort of stuff. I merely wanted to point out that without good context, events become obscured. You and I often speak from the left and since we are under attack by the right, in becomes imperative that I am careful with my words. English is not my major so, I am at a big disadvantage.
The may day riots is another example.
And then me back again:
Yes...I am not a prejudiced person. I have the unique advantage of having immigrants close to me while I was growing up. But they loved America – as did the Irish...they did not bite the hand that fed them...
We need to talk over coffee – I miss having interesting debates…
This is just my two cents about not just what is going on in Paris but also a report I heard on NPR today about people in AUSTRALIA and people in AMMAN (JORDAN) - wondering if they should really be aligned with the USA as far as fighting 'terror'. I will post more on these issues later.
{EDIT: I have posted the links to both sotries - the one about Australia is more about whether or not they should align with the US in fighting terror and whether that makes them more of a target. The one about Jordan is about their reacion to the killings and the horror of finding out WHO committed the acts).
Let me talk about my own 'immigration' experience. My grandmother and grandfather on my mother's side were from Italy (Calabria to be exact) - now I will say my grandmother was a mean woman - period - she was simply not nice - I don't have pleasant memories of her - she was just mean-spirited. She was not happy to be over here in this country (I really don't think) - other than the fact that she lived in a much nicer house than she could have in Italy and her kids did better financially. Now, the only way I remember my grandmother bucking the system was while you were in her home you spoke Italian - ONLY Italian not English. However, outside in public my grandmother followed the rules, laws and customs of the United States (as in 'when in Rome'). Sure my uncles were involved with some illegal things but that's another story...they sure as hell didn't start riots in Pittsburgh.
I have to say that if people are going to immigrate to another country and then be somehow disillusioned with that country and want to then harm that country's citizens, burn things down in their new 'home', disrupt the life, liberty and happiness of the other 'law abiding' citizenry, then they should either be deported, otherwise forced to leave or be jailed for their crimes. In other words if you are so fucking unhappy, leave. Otherwise figure out another PEACEFUL way to get your anger and frustration across NON-VIOLENTLY! It's worked for years in this country.
Yes this country was founded on turmoil we fought a war - a revolution to win our freedom from ANOTHER country (that was across the pond from us) - but we did not go to that other country and start riots or burning the place down because had we done so, we'd have been put in the stockades or hung or both.
If the immigrants in France want to go start a new country elsewhere let them go - there must be some really tiny island they can inhabit somewhere, vaguely threaten the US and then be taken care of...burning down Paris isn't the answer.
EDIT: I am going to post some things that Mr. C - sent to me and then our back and forth e-mail to show (not that I care what people think) that I am not heartless or prejudiced or racist or even all that nationalistic:
From Mr. C: A little history first.
Beginning in 1965, race riots became common in many Northern and Western cities. The most famous riot to occur happened in the Watts District of Los Angeles, California, but numerous other violent outbreaks occurred, including in several Ohio cities. The two most famous riots in Ohio, the Hough Riots and the "Glenville shootout," both erupted in Cleveland. Usually these riots occurred because of racist police forces (of Cleveland's 2,200 police officers, only 165 were black)or because of a lack of declining hope among African Americans for economic, social, and political
advancement.
In the case of the Cleveland Race Riots of 1966, also known as the Hough Riots, violence erupted in June 1966. The rioting lasted several days, and the Cleveland police force proved ineffective in quelling the violence. It finally took 2,200 Ohio National Guardsmen to reestablish order. Arson fires destroyed several blocks of homes and businesses in the Hough neighborhood on the east side of Cleveland. Four African Americans died. A grand jury assigned to investigate the riots concluded
that outsiders, including some communists, had caused the disturbance. Another panel more accurately determined that "The underlying causes of the rioting are to be found in the social conditions that exist in the ghetto areas of Cleveland." In essence, African-American residents in this part of Cleveland felt hopeless and that the city, state, and federal government officials had forgotten about them. source:
http://www.ohiohistorycentral.org/entry.php?rec=1597
Could the French blacks feel the same way? Surely, this does not justify civil disobedience however, We are know is that to the dis-advantaged it is very difficult to just pick up and move.
Recently I recieved a email that had been around before. It was about some rant poorly written in a Tampa rag:
"IMMIGRANTS, NOT AMERICANS, MUST ADAPT. I am tired of this nation worrying about whether we are offending some individual or their culture. Since the terrorist attacks on Sept. 11, we have experienced a surge in patriotism by the majority of Americans. However, the dust from the attacks had barely settled when the "politically correct" crowd began complaining about the possibility that our patriotism was offending others. I am not against immigration, nor do I
hold a grudge against anyone who is seeking a better life by coming to America. Our population is almost entirely made up of descendants of immigrants. However, there are a few things that those who have recently come to our country, and apparently some born here, need to understand. This idea of America being a multicultural community has served only to dilute our sovereignty and our national identity.
As Americans, we have our own culture, our own society, our own language and our own lifestyle. This culture has been developed over centuries of struggles, trials, and victories by millions of men and women who have sought freedom.
We speak ENGLISH, not Spanish, Portuguese, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if you wish to become part of our society, learn the language! "In God We Trust" is our national motto. This is not some Christian, right wing, political slogan. We adopted this motto because Christian men and women, on Christian principles, founded this nation, and this is clearly documented. It is certainly appropriate to display it on the walls of our schools.
If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another part of the world as your new home, because God is part of our culture. If Stars and Stripes offend you, or you don't like Uncle Sam, then you should seriously consider a move to another part of this planet. We are happy with our culture and have no desire to change, and we really don't care how you did things where you came from. This is OUR COUNTRY, our land, and our lifestyle. Our First Amendment gives every citizen the right to express his opinion and we will allow you every opportunity to do so. But once you are done complaining, whining, and griping about our flag, our pledge, our national motto, or our way of life, I highly encourage you take advantage of one other great American freedom, THE RIGHT TO LEAVE.
It is Time for America to Speak up If you agree -- pass this along; if you don't agree -- delete it!
AMEN
I figure if we all keep passing this to our friends (and enemies) it will also, sooner or later get back to the complainers, lets all try, please.
Now let it be known I don't agree with ALL of the sentiment of the piece from the Tampa Newspaper but I do agree with some of it. Below I am going to post the e-mails we sent back and forth...
This was my e-mail to Mr. C when he sent the above 'history':
I know I may have sounded a bit ‘nationalistic’ but I feel that if you are going to enter a country (supposedly to find that ‘pot of gold’) – then you need to live there respectfully.
I don’t mean to imply that racism is OK – I can understand people wanting to riot – but all that does is make things worse, people get hurt, property gets damaged and the hard feelings never go away – the ‘blacks’ or otherwise disenfranchised get ‘branded’ as difficult or not worthy of good stuff cause they always ruin it – and as in the case of a lot of ghettos, you see these people turning their anger inwards, hurting each other.
I will say these two names again Gandhi, Martin Luther King….those are the role models for what these people need to do...
And his response to me:
Agreed! ...and I know how you really feel about this sort of stuff. I merely wanted to point out that without good context, events become obscured. You and I often speak from the left and since we are under attack by the right, in becomes imperative that I am careful with my words. English is not my major so, I am at a big disadvantage.
The may day riots is another example.
And then me back again:
Yes...I am not a prejudiced person. I have the unique advantage of having immigrants close to me while I was growing up. But they loved America – as did the Irish...they did not bite the hand that fed them...
We need to talk over coffee – I miss having interesting debates…
posted by Colette at 5:46 PM
2 Comments:
Jasbar,
I am not suggesting it's not a difficult situaiton. I know it's hard for poor people to just 'up and leave' a bad situation. But regardless of whether or not they were invited - no let me back up - let's say I invite you into my home (country) so you riot and burn the place down??? Uhm no I don't think so...you owuld leave if you did not like the hospitality of my home - at least if you were really upset/unhappy/unable to live there you would...you'd figure something out.
Look it's not like my grandparents had it easy. It's not like there were not prejudices against them (let's see 1950s America - ya think?) but you don't shit where you eat....I don't care what country you are in....this violence, this destruction is wrong on all levels. One last time - there are other ways to combat this.
these immigrants were largely invited in by the French
where did this come from? the french had every right to protect its citizens.
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